Great point . But maybe are a little intimidated by significant art because it demands more of the viewer or listener. The curriculum in our schools should have math oriented art classes or music oriented science classes. Music is great because it’s so mathematical. Students could learn Fourier transforms while making chill beats 😎
This is a magnificent idea. I have very little to add. I just like your idea. I have a young son and for the first time in my life am thinking about what is and isn't taught.
Also I looked at your profile and I'm glad you refuse to be owned :)
It maddens me too that no one seems to understand the function of art these days. But, sorry, no, this isn't it either. Art is not about ideas, and if you try to explain it to people that way, they will rightly reply that you don't need Bach to learn about the Fibonacci sequence.
The problem, I think, is that we look for a high cultural explanation of art when we should be looking at a small boy with his nose in a book. He is not reading for ideas. He is reading for experience. And the reason he craves experience is that he needs it to become wise and brave.
The need to become wise and brave is as basic a human need as the need to become big and strong. If we are not wise and brave, we cannot act correctly or effectively. Wisdom and bravery are survival traits. That is why we need stories. That is what stories are for. Wisdom and bravery are learned from experience, and stories give us experiences that are too expensive or dangerous to have in real life. This is why the brain rewards us with pleasure for bringing it stories.
You don't need haute cuisine to grow up big and strong, and you don't need haute art to grow up wise and brave. That is just the icing on the cake, and not everyone will have the taste for it. It's a wonderful thing for those who acquire a taste for it, but it is not haute cuisine that justifies food, and it is not haute art that justifies storytelling.
Ooo, I like your point too, I think in some ways that’s what she’s saying, but I think you’ve made an important distinction between consuming art to have a cultured perspective or for some related benefit and consuming art to grow in virtue.
A good article, Liza that makes a very important point but I don’t entirely agree with it. You are seeing your artistic temperament and love for the arts clash with your conservative friends in the STEM field who don’t see any practical application for the arts and don’t appreciate it. I’m sorry to say, Liza that conservatives or anyone else for that matter are few and far between in the Humanities. People in the sciences tend to reject anything they can’t see or touch. Art has a lot of real world value. Writing poetry gave you your purpose on this Earth. Listening to Bach’s Art of the Fugue got you interested in learning about the Fibonacci Sequence. Seeing Raphael’s School of Athens on the walls of the Vatican Museum got you thinking about the harmony between idealistic and earthly and philosophizing for months on end.
Art forces us as you said, to consider the ideas that move and shape our world. Thus inspiring us to become better citizens of the universe. Art makes us culturally more informed and thus more interesting, well-rounded people. Engaging with a wider variety of ideas allows us also to connect with a wide variety of people. Such as how I came to understand the black experience better by reading Mark Mathabane’s Kaffir Boy or Langston Hughes’ poem “I too sing of America.” or W.E.B. Dubois poignant poem about rivers. Art provides us with a model to live better and richer lives. It helped us make sense of the world too before science came into being. After that, it turned inward and helped us understand our inter workings and emotions. Art has even influenced science. DaVinci’s anatomical drawings directly influence modern medicine and linear development.
Albert Einstein’s scientific intuition was guided by music. Richard Feynman who was a very good painter and drummer, said that the arts sharpened his insights into quantum mechanics. So yes, STEM people, art absolutely does matter! However, there were a couple things in this article I also found troubling and must disagree with. You said you tend to gravitate towards those who share your values and are politically conservative. As an Independent moderate who has long been a fan of yours and always thought of you as an internet friend, I won’t lie that was a little hard for me to hear. This clustering of politically like minded people is exactly what’s made this nation as divided as it is. People of different political views never talk to each other, live in neighborhoods only with people who think like them, work only with people who think like them, won’t date or marry anyone who thinks politically differently, etc. I mean no disrespect, Liza but I don’t agree with that mindset. I have friends all across the political spectrum because I think in an America that’s the most divided it’s been since the Antebellum era, we now more than ever need to make connections with people who think differently and build bridges.
You talked about how you were treated with prejudice because you are a libertarian who believes in traditional values. I fear once again with no disrespect intended, Liza that you are becoming just as prejudiced in reverse. I fear you are replacing the left-wing echo chamber you experienced in college with a right-wing one. I also didn’t agree with what you said about empathy. As long as you don’t take the term too far, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. I also was a bit troubled by when you said “it requires me to have sympathy for people who want to kill Jews.” I hope you don’t mean all Palestinians. I can understand NOT having empathy for Hamas and their civilian collaborators. I don’t have any sympathy for them either. But what about all the genuinely innocent people of Gaza who are displaced, have lost family members, are starving, etc. What about Palestinian refugees who live under the Arab apartheid who are second-class citizens? What about anti-Hamas, pro-peace activists who condemned October 7th and who wish to live in peace and coexistence with Israel like Hamza Howidy, Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, Bassem Eid, John Aziz, the Green Prince, Jadd Hashem, and Mudhar Zahran? Revenge never solves anything, it only makes the world a worse place. I sincerely hope that you just meant Hamas there.
Maybe it's because I'm old that I find your group of STEM friends with their scorn of art and literature foreign to me. Now my wife, the Chemist, disdained her SF loving high school nerds and favored instead the electronics club. She realized later that it was their taste in SF that she didn't like. My high school group of friends were nerds, but nerds who had practically memorized Catch-22.
I've always been a writer but one who spent 40 years as a software engineer (it paid a lot better). As a STEM guy I know I approach life and art differently from most people as I try to explain in my essay https://frank-hood.com/2023/11/17/the-madness-of-crowds/. Oddly enough it was one of those flakey classes in college called The Poetry of Rock Lyrics that taught me to really appreciate poetry. High school English had taught me to dissect a poem as if I were diagramming a sentence. It took the wild metaphors of Bob Dylan to rouse the subconscious associations in my brain and bring meaning rather than see a poem as a cipher for my right brain to decode to unlock my full appreciation even if I could always appreciate a memorable phrase.
I laugh at anthropologists and archaeologists who ascribe religious meaning to the cave paintings at Lascaux while ignoring what's staring them in the face. They're art! It may have had religious significance as well, but the most obvious thing about them is that it's art, and art has meaning, even if it's just celebrating the triumphs of the hunt.
“a doctor can save a life while an artist can only enhance it, but is there really a point in saving a life if that life is meaningless to begin with?” is a begging the question fallacy, but overall a great work! I totally agree with you, and it’s well researched! I’m for sure sending this to my friends :)
Great point . But maybe are a little intimidated by significant art because it demands more of the viewer or listener. The curriculum in our schools should have math oriented art classes or music oriented science classes. Music is great because it’s so mathematical. Students could learn Fourier transforms while making chill beats 😎
This is a magnificent idea. I have very little to add. I just like your idea. I have a young son and for the first time in my life am thinking about what is and isn't taught.
Also I looked at your profile and I'm glad you refuse to be owned :)
It maddens me too that no one seems to understand the function of art these days. But, sorry, no, this isn't it either. Art is not about ideas, and if you try to explain it to people that way, they will rightly reply that you don't need Bach to learn about the Fibonacci sequence.
The problem, I think, is that we look for a high cultural explanation of art when we should be looking at a small boy with his nose in a book. He is not reading for ideas. He is reading for experience. And the reason he craves experience is that he needs it to become wise and brave.
The need to become wise and brave is as basic a human need as the need to become big and strong. If we are not wise and brave, we cannot act correctly or effectively. Wisdom and bravery are survival traits. That is why we need stories. That is what stories are for. Wisdom and bravery are learned from experience, and stories give us experiences that are too expensive or dangerous to have in real life. This is why the brain rewards us with pleasure for bringing it stories.
You don't need haute cuisine to grow up big and strong, and you don't need haute art to grow up wise and brave. That is just the icing on the cake, and not everyone will have the taste for it. It's a wonderful thing for those who acquire a taste for it, but it is not haute cuisine that justifies food, and it is not haute art that justifies storytelling.
Ooo, I like your point too, I think in some ways that’s what she’s saying, but I think you’ve made an important distinction between consuming art to have a cultured perspective or for some related benefit and consuming art to grow in virtue.
A good article, Liza that makes a very important point but I don’t entirely agree with it. You are seeing your artistic temperament and love for the arts clash with your conservative friends in the STEM field who don’t see any practical application for the arts and don’t appreciate it. I’m sorry to say, Liza that conservatives or anyone else for that matter are few and far between in the Humanities. People in the sciences tend to reject anything they can’t see or touch. Art has a lot of real world value. Writing poetry gave you your purpose on this Earth. Listening to Bach’s Art of the Fugue got you interested in learning about the Fibonacci Sequence. Seeing Raphael’s School of Athens on the walls of the Vatican Museum got you thinking about the harmony between idealistic and earthly and philosophizing for months on end.
Art forces us as you said, to consider the ideas that move and shape our world. Thus inspiring us to become better citizens of the universe. Art makes us culturally more informed and thus more interesting, well-rounded people. Engaging with a wider variety of ideas allows us also to connect with a wide variety of people. Such as how I came to understand the black experience better by reading Mark Mathabane’s Kaffir Boy or Langston Hughes’ poem “I too sing of America.” or W.E.B. Dubois poignant poem about rivers. Art provides us with a model to live better and richer lives. It helped us make sense of the world too before science came into being. After that, it turned inward and helped us understand our inter workings and emotions. Art has even influenced science. DaVinci’s anatomical drawings directly influence modern medicine and linear development.
Albert Einstein’s scientific intuition was guided by music. Richard Feynman who was a very good painter and drummer, said that the arts sharpened his insights into quantum mechanics. So yes, STEM people, art absolutely does matter! However, there were a couple things in this article I also found troubling and must disagree with. You said you tend to gravitate towards those who share your values and are politically conservative. As an Independent moderate who has long been a fan of yours and always thought of you as an internet friend, I won’t lie that was a little hard for me to hear. This clustering of politically like minded people is exactly what’s made this nation as divided as it is. People of different political views never talk to each other, live in neighborhoods only with people who think like them, work only with people who think like them, won’t date or marry anyone who thinks politically differently, etc. I mean no disrespect, Liza but I don’t agree with that mindset. I have friends all across the political spectrum because I think in an America that’s the most divided it’s been since the Antebellum era, we now more than ever need to make connections with people who think differently and build bridges.
You talked about how you were treated with prejudice because you are a libertarian who believes in traditional values. I fear once again with no disrespect intended, Liza that you are becoming just as prejudiced in reverse. I fear you are replacing the left-wing echo chamber you experienced in college with a right-wing one. I also didn’t agree with what you said about empathy. As long as you don’t take the term too far, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. I also was a bit troubled by when you said “it requires me to have sympathy for people who want to kill Jews.” I hope you don’t mean all Palestinians. I can understand NOT having empathy for Hamas and their civilian collaborators. I don’t have any sympathy for them either. But what about all the genuinely innocent people of Gaza who are displaced, have lost family members, are starving, etc. What about Palestinian refugees who live under the Arab apartheid who are second-class citizens? What about anti-Hamas, pro-peace activists who condemned October 7th and who wish to live in peace and coexistence with Israel like Hamza Howidy, Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, Bassem Eid, John Aziz, the Green Prince, Jadd Hashem, and Mudhar Zahran? Revenge never solves anything, it only makes the world a worse place. I sincerely hope that you just meant Hamas there.
Maybe it's because I'm old that I find your group of STEM friends with their scorn of art and literature foreign to me. Now my wife, the Chemist, disdained her SF loving high school nerds and favored instead the electronics club. She realized later that it was their taste in SF that she didn't like. My high school group of friends were nerds, but nerds who had practically memorized Catch-22.
I've always been a writer but one who spent 40 years as a software engineer (it paid a lot better). As a STEM guy I know I approach life and art differently from most people as I try to explain in my essay https://frank-hood.com/2023/11/17/the-madness-of-crowds/. Oddly enough it was one of those flakey classes in college called The Poetry of Rock Lyrics that taught me to really appreciate poetry. High school English had taught me to dissect a poem as if I were diagramming a sentence. It took the wild metaphors of Bob Dylan to rouse the subconscious associations in my brain and bring meaning rather than see a poem as a cipher for my right brain to decode to unlock my full appreciation even if I could always appreciate a memorable phrase.
I laugh at anthropologists and archaeologists who ascribe religious meaning to the cave paintings at Lascaux while ignoring what's staring them in the face. They're art! It may have had religious significance as well, but the most obvious thing about them is that it's art, and art has meaning, even if it's just celebrating the triumphs of the hunt.
This reminded me of a short story, Containment by Susan Kaye Quinn.
def art tho
“a doctor can save a life while an artist can only enhance it, but is there really a point in saving a life if that life is meaningless to begin with?” is a begging the question fallacy, but overall a great work! I totally agree with you, and it’s well researched! I’m for sure sending this to my friends :)
its art
makes me think about how intermittently in a nerdy way its STEM-art because of acts