The tradcath thing seems to be newer than redpill, at least on the Internet (obviously some form of it goes back way further), so I'm guessing some fraction of people were first one and then the other.
Most people are less annoying IRL because non-sociopaths will feel bad about hurting you, plus you have social cues. I wouldn't take the I…
The tradcath thing seems to be newer than redpill, at least on the Internet (obviously some form of it goes back way further), so I'm guessing some fraction of people were first one and then the other.
Most people are less annoying IRL because non-sociopaths will feel bad about hurting you, plus you have social cues. I wouldn't take the Internet that seriously. A lot of people are more successful online than they are IRL. It's fun to talk about stuff you can't find a person in real life to discuss with (or would be fired if you did), but it's a very selected view of humanity and the people who become internet famous are often just as abnormal as the ones who become real famous.
Like, any random woman is expected to cook for them? I only thought that was expected if you were in a relationship. The 'make me a sandwich' is an antifeminist insult. Or not. I don't spend a lot of time with guys like this so I wouldn't know.
Haha, nothing wrong with having standards. ;) I have to say I'm glad I wasn't raised Christian then, given my lack of athleticism and valor I would have just gone incel. (Or more likely become an annoying internet atheist first.) It is interesting to see some confirmation of the old double standard that women don't mind a loose guy if he's high-value enough, however that woman defines it. (Though I assume you expect him to quit after marriage.)
I guess fairness is less of a thing with you guys and it's more about adherence to the gender ideal, but say he had been promiscuous and didn't care if you had been but wanted to settle down?
And, why would I propose to someone I didn't want to marry? Seems kind of cruel.
Don’t have a ton of time to respond. Will write more later. But I have to work with these guys. We live in campaign houses, and 9x out of 10… I end up just doing all the laundry and washing all the dishes. It’s like *Snow White and the 7 Dwarves* non-feminist libertarian edition
My driver in New Hampshire last year, constantly left me behind in neighborhoods, complained every time I asked to be picked up to go to the bathroom… one day I decided to make breakfast for both of us, and suddenly, jerkwad was gone… but I had to cook for him every day for the rest of the campaign. In our professional circle, sexism isn’t a thing, HR is a guy from Mississippi. He’d just laugh if I complained.
But yes, ‘unworthy dude wanting unrelated woman he’s not in a relationship with to cook for him’ is a thing. It’s some kind of power move he can brag about that he got me to be submissive
Oh, you're on the Republican campaign trail? That's a little different I guess. That really does suck. Sure you don't want to switch parties?
Just goes to show you how different life is on the other side of the political divide. I spent most of my career edging away from women in elevators in case one bumped into me, and avoiding romantic relationships at work (which turned into 'avoiding romantic relationships' given my hours).
Wow, they talk about submission more than the kinky people I knew.
Haha, yup, the Republican campaign trail is another world. HR norms are usually based on the social norms of the team… so if you’re with mormons, it’s a problem if you’re not an early bird; however if you’re with a libertarian team, they’ll house everyone in Massachusetts to work in New Hampshire, so that they can smoke pot
The banning of romance at work has been such a tragedy. I can see how that could harm you outside of it… if you train yourself to avoid doing anything flirtatious during work hours, how do you turn it back on afterwards?
HR really has done serious damage in that regard…
To go back to your last comment, if a man had been promiscuous and wanted to settle down, I’d assume at some point he’d end up sleeping with someone else (not in a deliberate way, but in a ‘just happened’ way) and hope that he’d feel comfortable telling me (and be smart enough to not get anyone pregnant)
The big question would be, is this a part of himself he’s working on? Or is he being careless?
If he’s genuine about working on it, then I’m game.
That would make sense. And if you've seriously been in both of those situations you have an interesting memoir to write!
Why serve a party that treats you as an inferior? (This is exactly why I'm not a Democrat!)
And yeah, I think a lot of guys can turn it on and off but I just internalized 'flirting is bad' and had limited ability to turn that off.
I do kind of think a lot of guys want to 'sow their oats' while they can but when actually getting married won't want to blow up their family, especially with the way the courts are. (My dad would tell me about the stuff he did while single but I never saw any evidence he was cheating on my mom, and they're still together after 40+ years!) A guy who's been a virgin into his 20s might be socially inept and not masculine enough to be attractive. Still, that might fit your criteria.
The anthem of wimpy religious guys everywhere! lol
Reminds me of a couple campaigns ago, there was a guy from church that really liked me (lawyer and owned some property) and the guy I was seeing (restaurant manager, prior coastie, lived in an apartment with two roommates) came with our friend group for karaoke…
Cue the passive aggressive comments.
Church guy was comfortable taking verbal shots at a guy 3x his physical strength, and he just sat there politely and took it. I got fed up. The evening peaked when I sang “Irresistible” by Jessica Simpson, and kept looking at my guy, who was basically blushing by the stage.
When we sat back down, church guy goes, “Talk about pearls before swine” starts laughing and took a sip of his beer. Jesus
That’s beautiful about your parents. A lot of older men have told me the same, about them being wild in their youth and then, “only had eyes for my wife”.
Maybe there *is* a magic thing that happens; but men get married later now, and the habits are more ingrained... I’d rather be pleasantly surprised, than set the bar too high, and be devastated
Have your parents given you any pearls of wisdom, for how they’ve been able to maintain their relationship so long?
I don't think it's 'magic' so much as a lack of incentives and possibly declining testosterone; even in our degenerate age a lot of men won't want to blow up a family with an affair, especially given the way the family courts favor women. If you don't want to get hurt, well, I would respect that.
I don't know. My dad said he liked to do a lot of things with my mom. They had a lot of demographic and cultural stuff in common (they were from the same Latin American country), but it's also worth noting my dad is about 5 inches taller, which is a powerful force multiplier. They were also born over 70 years ago, in a very different time.
Just repeated phrases, "tradeoff" "I can offer" "one day you'll settle" "one day you'll give up". A lot of negging. Some of them see marriage transactionally, which actually isn't Christian. (In Orthodox tradition, we're even taught that a couple's souls are tied together, and we're either saved together or condemned together; so very much, I wouldn't marry a man unless I love him enough to go to hell for him.)
That makes sense, being immigrants together is a bonding experience. Doing things together isn't talked about much but that's actually something I see canvassing... A lot of old couples will garden together, go on walks, read to eachother. They could be totally different, but they make a point to do some shared activities. (Many opposing party couples actually sit together and decide which candidates to vote for, so they don't split their vote as a couple, and I'm nosy and will start asking about other things. :X)
That's great you have a beautiful example to look to... I hope you find someone. You seem a bit cynical in some of your comments, but I hope one day, that will come to you
Editing this because I’m kinda curious… since you never married, let’s say you did find someone you wanted to be with, do you think you’d be able to be faithful after so many years of not being committed to one? How could she then support you in that?
… Some guys actually wouldn’t date me seriously because they worried they would cheat and thought I deserved “better”. So it has come up as an issue. (I always found it to be profoundly stupid, as there are many vices, not just sexual ones.)
Well, I'm sorry you had to deal with that! You were right to reject them. Seems like a dumb strategy as well on their end as you are just further demonstrating low social status. I doubt there are all that many real Christians out there; the animal instincts are too strong these days. I actually tried to wait for marriage but finally had to give in the first time I dated since I didn't really have a religious objection to premarital sex.
Tradeoffs are something both sexes have to deal with, though, and are not limited to the dating/mating market.
I'm not really looking at this point. Frankly it's at least half on me--I could have worked out more, for instance, or worked harder at changing my personality to one of the types women like more. Ladies don't like nerds--this ain't China. And at this point in my life there's a strong possibility anyone claiming to be into me is actually after the money.
Yeah, the old couples are cute. I think that's rare nowadays.
Could I be faithful? Honestly, yes. If I was actually married I wouldn't cheat. I know there's that whole stupid chewing gum metaphor and people with a large number of prior partners are more likely to divorce...but I like to think my word means something, the marriage often doesn't survive infidelity, and I have no interest in blowing up my life and giving my ex a claim on my assets and future earnings for some passing fancy. So, yeah, I don't plan to cheat, and I'd be more worried about *her* doing it to me frankly.
I don't really understand the Christian dating scene, but it could have been a nice way to let you down, kind of like the secular women will say 'I have a boyfriend'.
It could have been, but in my twenties, especially, it was clear the guys were physically uncomfortable. I couldn’t even hug them without it being an issue.
I like where you say, “…but I like to think my word means something…” that speaks to your will and character.
A lot of ladies *do* like nerds. Cleverness is sexy. It’s just that a lot of nerdy guys in recent years have begun acting in ways that are unappealing (passive aggressive lawyer dude is a prime example but the Bay Area is notorious for some of their arrogance associated with money.) You seem very genuine, and I understand the worry guys have after accumulating wealth (a part of me would die every time a guy I was seeing bought a house, or a boat, because inevitably a bunch of girls would find out and start throwing themselves at him)
Is there anyone you can think of from before you became wealthy? Where the timing was off, or there were roadblocks?
It might be worth reconnecting. Men seem to think women forget them, and that really isn’t the case.
The tradcath thing seems to be newer than redpill, at least on the Internet (obviously some form of it goes back way further), so I'm guessing some fraction of people were first one and then the other.
Most people are less annoying IRL because non-sociopaths will feel bad about hurting you, plus you have social cues. I wouldn't take the Internet that seriously. A lot of people are more successful online than they are IRL. It's fun to talk about stuff you can't find a person in real life to discuss with (or would be fired if you did), but it's a very selected view of humanity and the people who become internet famous are often just as abnormal as the ones who become real famous.
Like, any random woman is expected to cook for them? I only thought that was expected if you were in a relationship. The 'make me a sandwich' is an antifeminist insult. Or not. I don't spend a lot of time with guys like this so I wouldn't know.
Haha, nothing wrong with having standards. ;) I have to say I'm glad I wasn't raised Christian then, given my lack of athleticism and valor I would have just gone incel. (Or more likely become an annoying internet atheist first.) It is interesting to see some confirmation of the old double standard that women don't mind a loose guy if he's high-value enough, however that woman defines it. (Though I assume you expect him to quit after marriage.)
I guess fairness is less of a thing with you guys and it's more about adherence to the gender ideal, but say he had been promiscuous and didn't care if you had been but wanted to settle down?
And, why would I propose to someone I didn't want to marry? Seems kind of cruel.
Don’t have a ton of time to respond. Will write more later. But I have to work with these guys. We live in campaign houses, and 9x out of 10… I end up just doing all the laundry and washing all the dishes. It’s like *Snow White and the 7 Dwarves* non-feminist libertarian edition
My driver in New Hampshire last year, constantly left me behind in neighborhoods, complained every time I asked to be picked up to go to the bathroom… one day I decided to make breakfast for both of us, and suddenly, jerkwad was gone… but I had to cook for him every day for the rest of the campaign. In our professional circle, sexism isn’t a thing, HR is a guy from Mississippi. He’d just laugh if I complained.
But yes, ‘unworthy dude wanting unrelated woman he’s not in a relationship with to cook for him’ is a thing. It’s some kind of power move he can brag about that he got me to be submissive
Oh, you're on the Republican campaign trail? That's a little different I guess. That really does suck. Sure you don't want to switch parties?
Just goes to show you how different life is on the other side of the political divide. I spent most of my career edging away from women in elevators in case one bumped into me, and avoiding romantic relationships at work (which turned into 'avoiding romantic relationships' given my hours).
Wow, they talk about submission more than the kinky people I knew.
Haha, yup, the Republican campaign trail is another world. HR norms are usually based on the social norms of the team… so if you’re with mormons, it’s a problem if you’re not an early bird; however if you’re with a libertarian team, they’ll house everyone in Massachusetts to work in New Hampshire, so that they can smoke pot
The banning of romance at work has been such a tragedy. I can see how that could harm you outside of it… if you train yourself to avoid doing anything flirtatious during work hours, how do you turn it back on afterwards?
HR really has done serious damage in that regard…
To go back to your last comment, if a man had been promiscuous and wanted to settle down, I’d assume at some point he’d end up sleeping with someone else (not in a deliberate way, but in a ‘just happened’ way) and hope that he’d feel comfortable telling me (and be smart enough to not get anyone pregnant)
The big question would be, is this a part of himself he’s working on? Or is he being careless?
If he’s genuine about working on it, then I’m game.
That would make sense. And if you've seriously been in both of those situations you have an interesting memoir to write!
Why serve a party that treats you as an inferior? (This is exactly why I'm not a Democrat!)
And yeah, I think a lot of guys can turn it on and off but I just internalized 'flirting is bad' and had limited ability to turn that off.
I do kind of think a lot of guys want to 'sow their oats' while they can but when actually getting married won't want to blow up their family, especially with the way the courts are. (My dad would tell me about the stuff he did while single but I never saw any evidence he was cheating on my mom, and they're still together after 40+ years!) A guy who's been a virgin into his 20s might be socially inept and not masculine enough to be attractive. Still, that might fit your criteria.
Tradeoffs...
The anthem of wimpy religious guys everywhere! lol
Reminds me of a couple campaigns ago, there was a guy from church that really liked me (lawyer and owned some property) and the guy I was seeing (restaurant manager, prior coastie, lived in an apartment with two roommates) came with our friend group for karaoke…
Cue the passive aggressive comments.
Church guy was comfortable taking verbal shots at a guy 3x his physical strength, and he just sat there politely and took it. I got fed up. The evening peaked when I sang “Irresistible” by Jessica Simpson, and kept looking at my guy, who was basically blushing by the stage.
When we sat back down, church guy goes, “Talk about pearls before swine” starts laughing and took a sip of his beer. Jesus
That’s beautiful about your parents. A lot of older men have told me the same, about them being wild in their youth and then, “only had eyes for my wife”.
Maybe there *is* a magic thing that happens; but men get married later now, and the habits are more ingrained... I’d rather be pleasantly surprised, than set the bar too high, and be devastated
Have your parents given you any pearls of wisdom, for how they’ve been able to maintain their relationship so long?
There's a wimpy religious guy anthem?
Sounds obnoxious.
I don't think it's 'magic' so much as a lack of incentives and possibly declining testosterone; even in our degenerate age a lot of men won't want to blow up a family with an affair, especially given the way the family courts favor women. If you don't want to get hurt, well, I would respect that.
I don't know. My dad said he liked to do a lot of things with my mom. They had a lot of demographic and cultural stuff in common (they were from the same Latin American country), but it's also worth noting my dad is about 5 inches taller, which is a powerful force multiplier. They were also born over 70 years ago, in a very different time.
Just repeated phrases, "tradeoff" "I can offer" "one day you'll settle" "one day you'll give up". A lot of negging. Some of them see marriage transactionally, which actually isn't Christian. (In Orthodox tradition, we're even taught that a couple's souls are tied together, and we're either saved together or condemned together; so very much, I wouldn't marry a man unless I love him enough to go to hell for him.)
That makes sense, being immigrants together is a bonding experience. Doing things together isn't talked about much but that's actually something I see canvassing... A lot of old couples will garden together, go on walks, read to eachother. They could be totally different, but they make a point to do some shared activities. (Many opposing party couples actually sit together and decide which candidates to vote for, so they don't split their vote as a couple, and I'm nosy and will start asking about other things. :X)
That's great you have a beautiful example to look to... I hope you find someone. You seem a bit cynical in some of your comments, but I hope one day, that will come to you
Editing this because I’m kinda curious… since you never married, let’s say you did find someone you wanted to be with, do you think you’d be able to be faithful after so many years of not being committed to one? How could she then support you in that?
… Some guys actually wouldn’t date me seriously because they worried they would cheat and thought I deserved “better”. So it has come up as an issue. (I always found it to be profoundly stupid, as there are many vices, not just sexual ones.)
Well, I'm sorry you had to deal with that! You were right to reject them. Seems like a dumb strategy as well on their end as you are just further demonstrating low social status. I doubt there are all that many real Christians out there; the animal instincts are too strong these days. I actually tried to wait for marriage but finally had to give in the first time I dated since I didn't really have a religious objection to premarital sex.
Tradeoffs are something both sexes have to deal with, though, and are not limited to the dating/mating market.
I'm not really looking at this point. Frankly it's at least half on me--I could have worked out more, for instance, or worked harder at changing my personality to one of the types women like more. Ladies don't like nerds--this ain't China. And at this point in my life there's a strong possibility anyone claiming to be into me is actually after the money.
Yeah, the old couples are cute. I think that's rare nowadays.
Could I be faithful? Honestly, yes. If I was actually married I wouldn't cheat. I know there's that whole stupid chewing gum metaphor and people with a large number of prior partners are more likely to divorce...but I like to think my word means something, the marriage often doesn't survive infidelity, and I have no interest in blowing up my life and giving my ex a claim on my assets and future earnings for some passing fancy. So, yeah, I don't plan to cheat, and I'd be more worried about *her* doing it to me frankly.
I don't really understand the Christian dating scene, but it could have been a nice way to let you down, kind of like the secular women will say 'I have a boyfriend'.
It could have been, but in my twenties, especially, it was clear the guys were physically uncomfortable. I couldn’t even hug them without it being an issue.
I like where you say, “…but I like to think my word means something…” that speaks to your will and character.
A lot of ladies *do* like nerds. Cleverness is sexy. It’s just that a lot of nerdy guys in recent years have begun acting in ways that are unappealing (passive aggressive lawyer dude is a prime example but the Bay Area is notorious for some of their arrogance associated with money.) You seem very genuine, and I understand the worry guys have after accumulating wealth (a part of me would die every time a guy I was seeing bought a house, or a boat, because inevitably a bunch of girls would find out and start throwing themselves at him)
Is there anyone you can think of from before you became wealthy? Where the timing was off, or there were roadblocks?
It might be worth reconnecting. Men seem to think women forget them, and that really isn’t the case.